Where do you get useable trainers these days?

[-sheep-]

hey, erm.. im not exactly sure what you mean.. that is if your response was directed at me.. i would imagine everyone has the opinion that work is exactly what we get paid for? Im pretty sure thats why its called work. If it was to me please clarify a little more.. thanks.

[Joe Forster/STA]

Originally Posted by -sheep-

i would imagine everyone has the opinion that work is exactly what we get paid for? Im pretty sure thats why its called work.

Right, I understood you correctly then. That's a major point that we disagree on.

You can work for free, e.g. nuns as nurses in hospitals during war time, and you can do nothing for a salary, e.g. most people high enough in financial establishments. (Have you recently seen news about "some" employees of Barclay's illegally affecting LIBOR, to earn billions - for Englishmen: trillions - of dollars?) If one is raised with the notion that one should work for not the money but for the pleasure of having achieved something or, at least, having done something useful for the society that keeps him/her alive then there is no disappointment about a too low (or high) salary either.

The fact that most people believe in what you say - and I agree it that the majority does - shows how sick this whole society is. The kind of society I am talking about would give a truly happy life - being a useful member of society - for every citizen, including e.g. toilet cleaners - which are, by the way, considered the lowest possible while, in truth, are doing a job much, much more important than bankers do. (Don't believe me? Imagine that toilet cleaners and bankers go on a strike. Which is going to be harder to endure?)

The amount of money you earn should be proportional to the usefulness (to society) of your work. You probably agree with me on this. Actually, I think everybody agrees with me on this. That's the theory. However, from this theory it follows that it should be teachers, doctors, nurses, ambulance people, policemen, firemen who earn among the highest. But tell you what: genuine, benevolent, honest politicians should, too, earn a lot. After all, they are the people whose work has a great effect on the whole society. Now, apart from politicians, are these professions those with some of the highest salaries? No. That's global hypocrisy at its worst.

But you can still choose (not be forced!) to do free work, that is, favors to certain members of society and assume that you'll get favors, too. It's just a matter of whether the feedback is positive or negative, whether the cycle is vicious or virtuous.

What boils down to this topic, in practice: talented programmers should have a job that earns them enough money and still have enough spare time to do hobby projects, the favors I described above. Unfortunately, some people are forced to become entrepreneurs, without letting them exploit (in a positive meaning) their potentials fully. This is a bad mistake of society, a serious waste of the most precious resource: human intelligence. Of course, if someone becomes an entrepreneur by his/her own choice then noone else can be blamed for the consequences, including their software getting pirated. Except for the whole society, that is, where ripping off is a virtue, not a shame, so everyone does that all the time (see negative feedback).

The typical and also wrong answer to warez is adding ever more sophisticated copy protection to software which, on the other hand, spoils users experience. In effect, copy protection punishes the wrong people which results in disappointment, bitterness, lack of credibility, an increasing abyss between software authors and users. This is what you're experiencing and, if you choose the typical answer, it won't change either, rather only gets even grimmer.

Unfortunately, most of those who have taken part in the "trainer war" or other trainer-related discussion are way too biased and shortsighted to see the events, that happen(ed) to them, in a greater context. I'm not saying that you're completely wrong on all accounts but these tirades look like pitiful whining to most people, especially users who "just" want free and working trainers, and consequently won't get you anywhere. You should switch from negative feedback - that is, getting disappointed about being ripped off by everyone - to positive feedback - that is, continuing to produce whatever gives you and your users pleasure and getting you well-earned praise for it - and everything good will follow from this. If you don't expect anything, it will be a nice surprise for you to actually get something. Positive thought waves, people!

[-sheep-]

ok, for starters we are both coming at this from COMPLETELY!!! different directions.. and i think its a little unfair that you take my point of view, which is based primarily and ONLY on the trainer scene and then apply this to take into consideration the whole of societies woes..

I come from a simple standpoint of explaining my actions (and others) encapsulating one VERY tiny aspect of commerce invading a hobby i once loved to cultivate for free. Society as a whole and the TRAINER COMMUNITY are 2 very different gene pools to take any kind of surface data, after all.. we are on a TRAINER MAKING FORUM!! are we not?? unless ive wondered into the social economical and moral reforms forum by mistake?

If you ask me to comment on all of this from a social standpoint then i agree with you pretty much verbatim, i think police and doctors should be paid as much as movie stars and sports players.. we have society fucked up completely.. we idolise, revere and reward the USELESS!!!! and we dont take care of our professions that actually contribute to society in a positive way..

FIGHT THE POWER!!!

[Joe Forster/STA]

Originally Posted by -sheep-

Society as a whole and the TRAINER COMMUNITY are 2 very different gene pools to take any kind of surface data

Hell no! If you look closely then you'll see how many subsets, such as the trainer scene, represent society, "only" in a smaller scale. That's why I dared to generalize. You won't see anyone talk about the problems of the trainer scene in media but there's lots of talk about society in general and, if you notice the parallels and learn the proper general solutions, you will be able to apply those solutions to subsets, too. If both sides of an argument continue to escalate the situation, and noone - especially their own "citizens", whatever that means - then a war will take place. Both sides, as well as everyone else involved, will suffer and no mutally accepted answer will arrive either. That's true in large as well as small scales.

(A few months ago, I volunteered to become the representative of the 42-flat condominium, that I live in, on a housing estate, in the suburbs of Budapest, and even I was surprised about the number of parallels between society in general and the group of residents in particular. Not surprisingly, I wasn't elected. )