TonyG

[crispy]

Mailed to me by TonyG

I've reproduced it here as your email is as false as your knowledge about programming
Crispeater..


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just thought i reply personaly to your last post aimed at me, no doubt you will
disagree yet again (it seems to be your nature).
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last updated at 31-10-2001 03:35 (2 times)
Once more to the battlefield...
Check out the link and see how many burners are "only readable in recorder"
####://www.geocities.com/pcp-freak/4cdfreaks/SafeDisc2.html
??tg: i have heard this from alot of plextor owners although it doesnt make any
sense that this would be the case....

Secondly....

What Macrovision box?? Never seen one of those. No game uses a "windows internal
error".

??tg: the box that says "Please insert correct cd" + a windows interal error can
be expressed though an invalid page fault

What you see is a call for windows such as GetMessageBoxA with a string
contained therein, which is called from within the game executable itself. There
is no hard and fast rule here. Other SD2 titles don't give any error message at
al. Go and run Black and White without a cd in the draw, and you'll get dumped
to windows without any message. None at all. An error message box is not
indicative of any commercial protection mechanism, unless there is consistancy
from title to title.
??tg: which it often is...
Consistancy makes protection too easy to crack.
??True but macrovision still uses the same msg from sd1
Take Deus Ex for instance. No cd in the drive generates a error message box.
??tg: (which is rarely used elsewhere)
Does this mean this is protected by a commercial protection mechanism? No, 5
minutes in Win32Dasm and that "protection" is removed.
??tg: dont really care

You correctly point out that Ollie used the word "beast" in his original comment
on SD2 (posted at CdMediaworld). I apologise for using the same word, even
though I haven't read that piece for probably over 8 or 9 months since it was
first posted. But the fact is, my statement is true.

??tg: You want a fast rule? do what i do, hasnt failed yet so your statement is
false

And finally, your statement that
"if you have an acer or phillips chip set burner (like i do) then you can ALWAYS
backup sd2 protected games"
is again only half true. All Acer models produced in recent times can indeed
copy 1:1 SD2 titles. But less than half of Phillips burners can achieve this
feat.
####://www.elby.de/CloneCD/english/cdr_p.htm
??tg: No mate, you look at the updated clonecd site to see that almost all
modern phillips burners have been added

So if you don't like being corrected, mate, get your facts straight.
??tg: no mistakes (its you whose not speaking from experience)

By the way, I wouldn't be offended by anything you have or might post, as this
is not very important on the grand scheme of things, and just healthy debate.
??tg: (so be it, im happy you feel that way)

Date: 31-10-2001 on 03:30

[crispy]

Hi there matey.

Interesting mail.

My nature, as you put it, is to try and present the facts and not uneducated conjecture. You will also see that I'm very active in helping peeps on that forum in every way. Not the argumentative person you presume I am.
Your nature on the other hand is one of confrontation by abusive language. Your original post (which you deleted once you'd calmed down) is proof of that sadly.
I'm happy with my mature attitude to what is somewhat unimportant debate. Obviously, you need to take criticism a little less to heart and stop resonding with your adolescent hormones.

Now, to respond to your points...

1.>??tg: i have heard this from alot of plextor owners although it doesnt make any sense that this would be the case....

Why should it make sense to you? We don't fully understand sd2 and just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't deny the fact that it happens. I've made many copies with my two plex drives which only work in my drive. No others. And I'm not alone in this. The weak sectors are quirky by nature and thus don't always follow "sense"

2.>??tg: the box that says "Please insert correct cd" + a windows interal error can be expressed though an invalid page fault

read the code within the loaders. This isn't an internal windows error, but a specific call from within the program code to a windows api. If you don't believe me then put your loader into Win32Dasm or similar and check the imported functions list. Or even better, set SoftICE to breakpoint a one of those api calls and you'll break just before it.
It has nothing to do with a windows internal error otherwise the loader would stop responding. And as for your comment about invalid page faults.......dear oh dear. I haven't the time or inclination to discuss at length basic programming with you as it seems you are unfamiliar with it.

3.Take Deus Ex for instance. No cd in the drive generates a error message box.
>??tg: (which is rarely used elsewhere)

Again, there are plenty of titles out there which use exactly this kind of lame mechanism. Granted it is getting less and less as companies are duped into thinking that sd2 is worth the money.

[crispy]

4.An error message box is not indicative of any commercial protection mechanism, unless there is consistancy from title to title.
>??tg: which it often is...

Is it really? Then how do you explain Black and White? SD2, but no error box.......so where's the consistency between sd2 titles? Does this box say anything about macrovision or sd2? No. That windows box could have been called from any part of the code, not the macrovision part. Consistency would demonstrate that a title could be deemed to be sd2 because a particular window was produced. i.e. it would be a #####mark window which is only produced by sd2 protected titles. If it was, you wouldn't need to use any form of protection detector. You could just wait for that window and say "ha ha, that's sd2"...but you cannot. That would be consistency, not some general windows message window called by the program code.

5. >??True but macrovision still uses the same msg from sd1
Really? And what message is that? "Please insert CDROM" There must thousands of titles that produce that message. Does that mean they're all sd1? No.
I have some 25 titles with sd2, and fifty or more with sd1. Many are windows boxes, but many are graphical error boxes, not called via windows API functions. So how do you explain that? My Unreal Tornament uses a graphical error asking for a cdrom. That's sd1. So where is the consistency?

6.>??tg: No mate, you look at the updated clonecd site to see that almost all modern phillips burners have been added

That wasn't the point mate. You said that ALL phillips burners can do sd2. That page clearly shows that 9 can, but 11 cannot. The differentiation was not whether they were old or new. You stated, wrongly, that all phillips burners can do sd2. The list says otherwise. And why only talk about "modern" burners? Was it because you think every phillips owner has a new drive? You realy are grasping at straws to defend that one mate.

7. >??tg: dont really care

Well you should because if you took the time to understand the underlying programming involved, you wouldn't talk such informed rubbish.

8. >??tg: You want a fast rule? do what i do, hasnt failed yet so your statement is false

And what would that be? Buy a sd2 capable burner and sit smugly saying "stuff the rest" as you did when you posted this priceless piece of "helpful" prose...

"I quite like it the way it is, this way only a the elite few can make perfect backups of games" posted by you on 11-06-2001 at 13:11

Maybe you think that makes you special....hate to tell you mate, it just makes you a rather silly little boy.

So, if you knew anything about programming, you wouldn't be talking such nonsense and certainly wouldn't be mailing me with this rubbish.

Obviously, this mail will stir your newly found hormones into action, and I await the next rivetting installment of "TonyG, master programmer"